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    Female Members of Hizb Ettahrir Meet in Tunisia Calling for an Islamic Caliphate

    By Sana Ajmi | Mar 10 2012 Share on Linkedin Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Google Share on pinterest Print

    Tags: benefits of Islamic state , Caliphate a shining model for women's rights and political role , democratic , Hizb Attahrir , Indonesia ,

    International conference of Hizb Ettahrir in Tunis

    Hundreds of women gathered at the first international conference of Hizb Ettahrir in Tunis today. Entitled “Caliphate: A shining model for women’s rights and political role,” the summit addressed the shortcomings of liberal democracies with regard to women’s rights. According to Hizb Ettahrir, only an Islamic Caliphate state and the institution of Sharia law can ensure women’s rights and safeguard the rights and security of women within the family-unit and society.

    Founded in 1953, Hizb Ettahrir is a global Islamist political party with membership and a number of supporters spanning more than 50 countries. It advocates the return of the Caliphate by political means.  When questioned about the party’s funding sources, Hager Yaakoubi, a member of Hizb Ettahrir in Tunisia, explained that “members of the party donate monthly or even weekly.”  The party remains legally unrecognized in Tunisia.

    In addition to its female members, supporters of the Islamist party came from all over the world to discuss the benefits of an Islamic state for Muslim countries at the conference. Arab countries, such as Libya and Yemen, were represented among the conference’s participants as well as other non-Arab countries, including Indonesia and Turkey.

    Not all of the conference’s goers were well-received in Tunisia.  Dr. Nasrin Nawaaz from the central media office of the party’s British branch was held at the Tunis-Carthage International Airport for two hours. “This is my first visit to Tunisia. I was detained for two hours. They said that my name was on a black list. This raises the question that how much has changed since the revolution. Has Tunisia really changed after successfully toppling the regime of Ben Ali?” she asked.

    Nawaaz came to Hizb Ettahrir’s inaugural conference with the conviction that the Caliphate can protect women from the domestic violence that so many women suffer in non-Islamic societies. ”Other systems have failed in providing security and protection for women. We need an alternative for the failed liberal democratic system, and the Caliphate is the alternative,” Nawaaz said.

    Indeed, liberal democracy was largely perceived by participants as a hindrance to the liberation of women while the Caliphate an enabler for such an end.

    Nesrin Boutharfi, member of the party in Tunisia, spoke during the conference about the role of women within the Caliphate system. “Women would play an active role in public and private life…be politically active. Women need to be free from capitalism. The Islamic legislation granted women economic rights to work and enter professional life,” she stated.

    Imrana Jan, a member central media office of the party, stated that secularism and democracy only downgraded women’s status in society. “How can we adopt a man-made law like secularism and refuse God’s law? Secularism was made to serve interests of certain people,” she pointed out.

    Not only does the Caliphate provide women with greater freedoms, argued the conference’s participants, but it also preserves their dignity. “Women in Islam are treated with respect, not as an object like in other liberal systems that have solely made women suffer,” Boutharfi added.

    The fifth and last caliphate held sway under the Turkish Ottomans and was abolished in 1924 by the founder of modern Turkey, Mustafa Kemal Atatürk.

  • By Sana Ajmi  / 
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    Comments

      Peter Knopfler /

      YOU CAN TELL HOW FREE THEY ARE BY THE AMOUNT OF SUNLIGHT THEY GET.
      LIVING IN THE DARK IS NOT FREEDOM.
      Remember the best SLAVE is the one who thinks SHE IS FREE.
      1,487 yrs of brainwashing does not go away without a struggle.
      Free women and you free yourself.

      • European /

        I she thinks she is free, WHO ARE YOU TO TELL SHE IS NOT FREE, you i.iot??

        Both you and me are slaves in our compltely capilatist countries, so shut up and fight for a more social minded country.

        • Peter Knopfler /

          FREEDOM IS NO WHERE NOW NDAA MADE SURE NO ONE IS FREE.
          BOMBING MUSLIM COUNTRIES FOR OIL; NEEDS MUSLIMS TO CO-OPERATE LIKE SAUDI ARABIA WHO IS THE WEST FOOLS THE REST:
          THE KING IS YOUR FREEDOM JUST AS CIA IS THE REST BETWEEN THE KING AND CIA YOU GOT DEATH SLAVERY PROFITS BEFORE PEOPLE; DOMINATE WHAT ISLAM HAS NOT ENOUGH TO DOMINATE THEMSELVES SYRIA YEMEN BAHRAIN ALGERIA MOROCCO ALL ARE CIA OPERATIONS SOME ONE GETS PAID OFF ISLAM INSULTS THEMSELVES JUST AS OTHERS DO NO DIFFERENCE HERE: SHAME AND DEATH AND TORTURE ON BOTH SIDES:ISLAM SAME AS THE REST SAME AS WEST WHITE MAN`S MONEY KILLING BROWN PEOPLE EUGENICS IS YOUR FUTURE!
          ALL BECAUSE OF ALLAH=GOD=SUPREME BEINGS ALL DIRTY SHAME!

    1. Al /

      I dont know about everyone else, but Im more interested in living in 2012 not back in 1924. I wish these people would keep their religion private so the rest of us can think of things like …. The Economy, jobs, technology, science, energy production, and the normal debates we should be having. 90 percent of Tunisia doesnt care or relate to these folks who want to take us back 500 years. Why stop their, why dont they take us back to cave man days. I can say i speak for a vast majority of Tunisians when i say, these ppl will NEVER represent me, they represent Afghanistan.

      • Abu Abdelazeez /

        You’re building your argument on an un-discussed premise; namely that Islam can’t cope with every age. Instead of interpretating Islam through the lenses of the Europeans you should try and understand the dynamic nature of Islam through the lenses of Muslims. As for you representing the vast majority, here’s a good video for you, enjoy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8N4tMUrjEU

      • tunisian bella /

        Totally agree with you here. Their views will not be welcomed here by the vast majority thank God. The only people to jump on this bandwagon will be the Salafis’ and well they shot themselves in the foot this week with the nation.

        Tunisia is completely unique in that sense when it come to Islam and State (except the salafi!). We have more impressing topics to be discussing as you say, Economy, infrastructure, energy, unemployment issues among many other issues we are facing here.

        These groups don’t represent me either as a young Muslim Woman living in Tunisia in 2012 and their views are better kindled to those in Iran and Afghanistan.

    2. Kus Bintoro /

      I believe women people surely know what the most and what the main of their needed..
      Let the women people be arranged and be administered by their own self, especially by the expert woman among them self.
      Let the women people find out their own heart’s freedom among all people sociaty. Surely should be arranged by experties women in their own specialist.
      http://mainheartfreedom.blogspot.com

    3. Skander /

      “How can we adopt man-made law and not God’s law?” Good point, but that is assuming God actually sent the Quran. First, there is no proof that Mohamed was a real prophet, there were thousands of self-proclaimed prophets and he was no different than them. Also if the Quran was from God it probably won’t have verses like 67.5 that says stars are missiles that shoot demons, which we know that is just stupid and only idiots would say such a thing. The most ridiculous argument they make is that liberal democracies are a failure. The fact is the richest countries in the world are liberal democracies. Some like France and Spain are having economic trouble due to a rising life expectancy and medical costs,but life there is much better than Muslim countries. Why aren’t there any Christians or Atheists from Sweden go live in Muslim countries. However Muslim countries with Muslim laws are horrid places to live. Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Yemen, etc. The more Islamic a country becomes the more backwards it becomes. Or maybe becoming backwards makes it Islamic. Either case, Islam is bad. I used to not say bad things about Islam, and let people believe, but the fact Muslims are trying to get Islam in politics, it must be pointed out that it’s all crap. Quran was written by men. Read it and study it and it would be very clear to anyone who really cares about truth.

          • Martin /

            When people went to the movies for the first time in history they ran out because they saw a train approaching them in high speed.
            They never saw something like this before. They thought it was a real train crushing right into them.
            Maybe there are angels in the sky above us shooting stars at demons.
            There are many things we can not see but yet they exist. Radiowaves are an example for that.
            Yes some things in the Koran sounds unbelievable from a rationalist point of view.
            I don’t want to belong to either party. Neither the rationalist sceptic party that only believes in what they can explain nor to a naive party that believes in everything their told withoout questioning.
            Just because you don’t have an explaination for something doesen’t mean it wouldn’t exist. Rationalists run out of a movie theatre because it transcends their minds that a train is approaching them without hitting them. They were tricked by their own minds.

            • Skander /

              We do know now what stars are and we know what “moving stars” are. Mohamed did not. He thought they were missiles, but instead turned out to be comets. I can’t prove Jinn don’t exist, but the fact that comets have very predictable courses and Jinn have thousands of years to get out of the way, it is not a strong missile. The fact he called it stars and did not differentiate between the ones that move and the ones that don’t is more than enough proof. Plus you should assume God gives awesome revelation, not confusing crap as this. God also called the Earth was spread out like a carpet all over the Quran. I know people of that time believed the Earth is flat, calling it like a carpet as carpets are put flat on the floor gives that impression. Or Allah is very bad at metaphors. There were thousands of ways Allah could clearly explain the shape of the Earth, but used a way that makes it flat. Either Allah is stupid or Mohamed is a liar. 36.38-36.40 Again Mohamed talks about the orbit of the sun and the orbit of the moon. Muslim liars would say he is talking about them from a point of view on Earth, but the fact he says sun is in orbit, and so is the moon, but NOT THE EARTH, clearly shows he thinks it is the sun that goes around the Earth. Again, I could have thought of 1,000 different ways to make the verse more clear, either Allah is an idiot or Mohamed is a liar. I think I know which is more believable, as I doubt I am smarter than God.

        • Peter Knopfler /

          THE FOOL LIKE HITLER DOMINATE THE WORLD LIKE STALIN DOMINATE THE PEOPLE LIKE MAO DOMINATE THE EARTH LIKE ISLAM WANTS MORE SLAVES ALREADY HAVE HALF THEIR POPULATION WOMEN SLAVES GREEDY WANT THE REST OF THE WORLD AS SLAVES FOR ISLAM SHAME THE ARROGANCE OF IGNORANCE OR IGNORANCE OF ARROGANCE DOMINATE YOURSELF LEAVE EVERYONE ELSE ALONE TO THEMSELVES:
          YOUR COMMENT IS WHY YOUR DRONED & NIGHT RAIDS & RAPE ETC.= AND BEING PISSED ON BURNED OUT LOOK AT SAUDI TREATMENT OF BAHRAIN:
          YOU ISLAM TREAT YOUR OWN LIKE POOP=SO WHY ASK FOR DIFFERENT FROM OTHERS. LOOK IN THE MIRROR IF YOU HAVE ONE!

        • 1984 /

          Your an Idiot [sic]. The flying spaghetti monster is the truth. Nonbelievers will be boiled in spaghetti sauce.

          Unless you can actually prove that your deity is real stop forcing your religious views on everyone else.

      • Tunisian bella /

        I think you will find, that plenty Europeans and so on move to Arab/Muslim countries for work just as much as Muslims move to the west.
        If you say Islam is wrong, then why do so many convert Islam daily?? Explain. If you believe and understand the true Islam, you will know that is a peaceful religion. Now I am not brainwashed in anyway. I grew up in Europe of a mix raced family and the Islam I see portrayed in the media of these extremists is not the Islam I was taught.
        Islam moves with the ages, if you have a true belief.
        However being Muslim, I will have to admit I do not agree with Sharia Law, that is Man made law based on someone’s interpretation of the Qur’an.
        I find it funny that there is this hatred for Islam simply because of the media/Extremists/George Bush/Tony Blair era. Have we forgotten that that every religion has it’s “terrorists”? Have we forgotten that the 3 books don’t differ greatly from one another?

        I ask you to read the Qur’an, Bible and Torah and tell me the differences between the 3.

        You want to talk about man made Qur’an, Ok lets discuss Old testament/new testament? How many bibles circulate the world today? how many different volumes?

        Now I believe everyone is entitled to their belief and I will never judge. My belief in Allah, allows me to do so as he give recognition to those books in the Qur’an. I find it very ignorant and rude of you so berate a religion you clearly have no idea about. How about you have the decency to educate yourself on something before you open a tirade of insults.

        • Martin /

          Yes the 3 Religions you are talking about are also refered to as the 3 monotheistic believs of mesopotamia.
          They agree in most they say. They mainly disagree in their view on Jesus. That’s their uncommon link.
          Finally one can say they are all equally wrong or right.
          People convert to Islam out of personal reasons. That does not proof the truthness of any religion.

        • Skander /

          Tunisian Bella, I think you are the ones who knows nothing about religion. I read the Quran completely, something I’m sure you haven’t. If you want to prove that your religion is true and not just garbage be my guest. I have already written proofs to show that it probably just hog wash. But what you are saying is that I should simply not insult Islam and let everyone to their belief. Unfortunately your pedophile rapist prophet did not separate state and religion so people want Islamic law because they believe Islam is real. The only way to fight that is to show that Islam is not real and an Islamic state is a mistake because it is not from Allah. If you really care about truth and want to debate send me your e-mail address or any contact form and I’ll show you the truth if you care to know about it. If you are a coward and simply want to believe because you are scared of death no matter what harm can come to this world due to that belief then don’t waste my time.

          • tunisian bella /

            Skander I think you need to adjust your attitude. You speak with such hatred and your telling me as a Muslim I believe in a “terrorist” religion. Your spitting vile, yet your a peaceful person are you?

            I think you will find I have read the Qur’an fully many times, I don’t have hate in my heart for my fellow human beings from any race, colour or religion. But respect for their being.

            You said you read in the Qur’an, that it was mentioned that the world is flat like a carpet? ehh where did you read this? As far as I am aware it said the world was round. Prophet Mohamed does explain the different stars. It actually said that shooting stars where thrown by angels to chase the devils. Whether you believe that or not is your choice about it thrown to chase the devil. But he does explain the different stars. There are many things written in the Qur’an that science has only in recent years been discovering, another reason for my belief in Islam and one of many. Which leads be to believe you haven’t read it fully or didn’t understand the true meaning of Islam.

            I am a modern Muslim (sunni) woman, I don’t practice my religion and nor do I wear the Hijab. I work, I go out, I party, I drink, I smoke and I am free as a Woman. I have friends from all walks of life, colour, shape, size and religion. I am not a doormat and nor am I a second class citizen. I love my fellow human beings and try to live my life by not judging people. I respect everyone has their own belief system and freedom to choose their own belief. Now this is my life and my thoughts from reading the Qur’an. Am I a terrorist? Am I brainwashed? Am I a slave? Second class citizen? extremist?
            hmmmmmmmmm maybe this Islam you see portrayed in the media (mainly Shia Muslims) isn’t actually what Islam is about. Maybe try realising that out of how many Muslims in the world, these people are a minority. Pretty much like the IRA where to the Catholic’s. No everyone seems to forget about the IRA.

            • Skander /

              Tunisian Bella you are not a Muslim, Muslims would have you stoned and killed years ago. I’m going to respond to your post as you know very little of Islam

              Quran 20.53 He who has made the Earth like a carpet spread out….

              He says it again in 71.19

              NOWHERE IN QURAN IT SAYS EARTH IS ROUND!!!

              So I guess you’re going to stop believing in Islam right?
              Also thousands of people convert to Mormonism, are you going to convert to Mormonism? people follow stupid religions all the time due to emotional fear of death, not rational thinking. How many scientists are Muslim? There is nothing in Quran that science is discovering they are Muslim lies. They take a verse and pervert it’s meaning in the most stupid ways. Any rational thinker would laugh at them. As for the Jinn and stars, use your brain. If the Bible said that you would laugh at it. Please read the Quran, but not in Arabic, but in English that way you don’t sing it, but actually read the meanings of things. I became a disbeliever in reading the Quran, and that is what I want people to do is study and read the Quran, but not like an idiot believing everything,but with a critical mind.

        • Skander /

          By the way Islam is terrorism, please read the Quran. Sharia law has been interpreted many times by many different clerics around the world and the results are always the same. Please read the Quran and see how evil the book really is. It talks only evil of non-believers calling them many different bad names and verses like 9.29. There are terrorists from all religions, but Islam has much much more. Leave the religion of evil.

          • tunisian bella /

            1. Earth made as a carpet

            The question refers to a verse from the Qur’an in Surah Nuh:

            “And Allah has made the earth for you as a carpet (spread out).”
            [Al-Qur’an 71:19]

            But the sentence in the above verse is not complete. It continues in the next verse, explaining the previous verse. It says:

            “That ye may go about therein, in spacious roads.”
            [Al-Qur’an 71:20]

            A similar message is repeated in Surah TaHa:

            “He Who has made for you the earth like a carpet spread out; has enabled you to go about therein by roads (and channels)….”
            [Al-Qur’an 20:53]

            The surface of the earth i.e. earth’s crust is less than 30 miles in thickness and is very thin as compared to the radius of the earth which is about 3750 miles. The deeper layers of the earth are very hot, fluid and hostile to any form of life. The earth’s crust is a solidified shell on which we can live. The Qur’an rightly refers to it like a carpet spread out, so that we can travel along its roads and paths.
            2. Carpet can also be spread on other than an absolute flat surface

            Not a single verse of the Qur’an says that the earth is flat. The Qur’an only compares the earth’s crust with a carpet. Some people seem to think that carpet can only be put on an absolute flat surface. It is possible to spread a carpet on a large sphere such as the earth. It can easily be demonstrated by taking a huge model of the earth’s globe covering it with a carpet.

            Carpet is generally put on a surface, which is not very comfortable to walk on. The Qur’an describes the earth crust as a carpet, without which human beings would not be able to survive because of the hot, fluid and hostile environment beneath it. The Qur’an is thus not only logical, it is mentioning a scientific fact that was discovered by geologists centuries later.

            3. Earth has been spread out

            Similarly, the Qur’an says in several verses that the earth has been spread out.

            “And We have spread out the (spacious) earth: how excellently We do spread out!”
            [Al-Qur’an 51:48]

            Similarly the Qur’an also mentions in several other verses that the earth is an expanse:

            “Have We not made the earth as a wide expanse”
            “And the mountains as pegs?”
            [Al-Qur’an 78:6-7]

            None of these verses of the Qur’an contain even the slightest implication that the earth is flat. It only indicates that the earth is spacious and the reason for this spaciousness of the earth is mentioned. The Glorious Qur’an says:

            “O My servants who believe! truly. spacious is My Earth: therefore serve ye Me –(And Me alone)!”
            [Al-Qur’an 29:56]

            Therefore none can give the excuse, that he could not do good and was forced to do evil because of the surroundings and circumstances.
            4. Earth is geospherical in shape

            The Qur’an mentions the actual shape of the earth in the following verse:

            “And we have made the earth egg shaped”.
            [Al-Qur’an 79:30]

            The Arabic word Dahaha means egg shaped. It also means an expanse. Dahaha is derived from Duhiya which specifically refers to the egg of an ostrich which is geospherical in shape, exactly like the shape of the earth.
            Thus the Qur’an and modern established science are in perfect harmony.
            Source:http://www.irf.net/irf/faqonislam/index.htm

            Jazak Allah
            Source(s):
            http://muslimgroups.com/blog/view/id_168/title_does-the-quran-say-that-the-earth-is-flat-/

            The Quran has many verses talking about the universe, skies and earth as well as seas and mountains.
            you will be surprised to find out that many web sites are specialized in Scientific Evidences in the Quran

            though certain words they sem to say flat but this is wrongly understood by the simple reader as other verses clearly describes a spherical shapes and swimming in the space.

            the precise description of an egg shape is also hinted in the Quran as now science tells us the the Earth is not a perfect ball but it is a little squeezed from the sides (similar to an egg) etc.

            Oh and by the way, I read the Qur’an in English and in Arabic. Maybe you might need to re-read you arrogant person

          • tunisian bella /

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Muslim_scientists

            Here are the lists of Muslim Scientists. I think along with reading the Qur’an in English, I think you should go read about history from the 7th-14th Century. Maybe this will be a clear indicator of what Muslims contributed to the world of science.

            Clearly your hatred of Islam has blinded you to FACTUAL history. Something called the “dark ages”, can deny that can you? or are you going to say Science is a lie now. Everything that the Muslims contributes was a lie? Even when there is fact, black and white?

            Really how about you go learn some more then come back and have a go.

            I think your quote was “NOWHERE IN THE QUR’AN DOES IT SAY THE WORLD IS ROUND”. Again which leads me to say, i don’t think you have a full knowledge or understanding. My reference to the earth is flat like a carpet, well i explained that above.

            How dare you say I am not a Muslim. What because I don’t conform to your view that it is a “terrorist” religion? Instead, I am everything I said, and have a true belief in the real Islam. A peaceful Islam. I petty you and your narrow mind.

            • Skander /

              I will start with the flat world issue. When I wrote Quran said the world was flat, you said it was NOT in the Quran,but the Quran says the world was round. I proven you wrong and instead of admitting you were wrong by showing you those verses. The reason you thought that the Quran did not say the world is like a carpet because 1. You did not really read much of the Quran so you never saw it. 2. It sounded stupid and you believe the Quran does not say stupid things. Once you found it that it did you made some stupid non-logical excuse and then continue to say that Quran says world is round,but fail to show one verse. On top of that you say I’m uneducated in Quran while I can back my claims with verses while you can not.

              As for the question I asked you misunderstood, I did not ask are there Muslim scientists, I asked how many scientists today are Muslim. The fact is 99% of all modern day scientists are not Muslim. My point is if Quran had any scientific miracles or was such a great book, scientists would be converting in droves. The truth is the opposite, religion is believed by mostly uneducated, the more educated you become the less religious you are likely to be. As for the dark age “Muslim” scientists it will never be known which of them really believed Islam or said they did so they won’t be killed. The middle east has had great scientists since 3000 BC way before Islam. Discoveries happen everywhere, especially in high population and wealthy areas. The Middle East was one of those areas. Those scientists who lived in Islamic land did not use Islam for their discoveries so that is why it’s absurd to call them Islamic discoveries. Why don’t we call the law of gravity a Christian discovery even though a Christian discovered it? Because Christianity had nothing to do with that, Newton’s religion did not cause him to discover it and neither did the religion of middle east scientists. The Polytheist Greeks did awesome discoveries and are truly the reason of modern day science, but that does not mean Zues is the God of the world or does it?

              I would like to conclude you are not a Muslim and please read the Quran, I know it makes you feel good to think you’ll come back from the dead. I don’t know what happens after death, but Quran is just a myth and a very deadly and horrible myth. To do the are you a Muslim test answer these questions honestly.

              Do you believe in having sex slaves is ever morally acceptable? If you said NO you are not a Muslim.

              Do you think a 50 year old man marrying a 6 year old is good for the 6 year old? If you said NO you are not a Muslim.

              If a Muslim has doubts about his religion and decides not to believe in it due to no proof should he die? If you said no, then you are not a Muslim.

              Should all Christian and Jewish countries pay a tax to Muslims just for not being Muslims. If you said no, then you are not a Muslim.

              If a woman wants to divorce a man should she be allowed to without the man’s permission, if you said yes, you are not a Muslim.

              I could go on all day with this. Please answer honestly and if you want to doubt me like the carpet verse again please do and I’ll get you verses for each single one of those (except the pedophilia one, that’s Hadiths.) As long as you admit that you were wrong and Islam is junk as you do not share the moral values of this Allah. If God exists, I can tell you that your morals are not better than it, so if Allah’s morals are worse than yours you could be pretty sure Allah is not God, but just voices from Mohamed’s head. The pedophile who married 11 women, raped, had sex slaves, executed boys, frightened his idiot followers into giving him whatever he wanted.

        • 1984 /

          Why do so many start to use drugs unless it is the true way?

          Argumentum ad populum doesn’t prove any religion. On paper xtianity has more followers, is it then more true? Of course not.
          Thousands of years ago your religion didn’t even exist, you wouldn’t have needed your religion then either.

    4. Anis /

      I respect their beliefs and what they want, but I’m afraid, it is a tough task to mix religion and government. They are like an oxymoron, it’s hard to put them together.

      • Peter Knopfler /

        KILLING FOR GOD FOR ALLAH!
        PLATO 350 B.C. “Beware! Beware of the Man of one book, for the man of one book is filled with half truths, and there is no greater lie than a half truth, for a half truth can look like all the truth.”
        CHRISTIANS WANT TO DOMINATE The WORLD before ISLAM SINCE, same life after death same Kill for salvation Kill a Jew go to Paradise Kill A Muslim go to heaven, USA & Communist China kills for profits, killing for God or Profits, SAME DEADLY SMELL; SO PISS ON ALL OF YOU TO PUT OUT THE FIRE OF INSULTS!RECYCLE YOUR DNA OR YOU WILL BE NDAA, PRISONS FOR PROFITS, IS THE FUTURE FOR THOSE WHO WISH TO DOMINATE: DO NOT KILL FOR GOD OR MONEY:

    5. Martin /

      On Topic:
      I really wonder how exactly this islamic constitution will look like. On which grounds is it based?
      The Qur’an is surely his main source. The Qur’an explains itself. It is hard to draw exact laws from the text.
      It rather provides a general guideline towards just behaviour amongst each other.
      The sunnah is usually reffered to as the second pillar of an islamic law. Which ahdith could be usefull to draw a tangible law from? Very questionable.

      Finally: Every law, even it is derived from the koran and sunnah has “per se” to be man made. So God’s law analog to a man made law does not exist. God does make sure that his laws are asserted. We see it every day in rising of the sun etc. In english we call them principles of nature.

      Religion and Governance don’t have to be seperated but there is the need for a third pillar in governance for all the areas that are left grey by the holy texts. As well as for those areas were to is nothing said about in the texts and were no satysfying (that means applicable) directions can be found.

      • Martin /

        You see I like the moral aspect a religious pillar can provide in governance.
        Where there is no such moral pillar nothing counts but the money. That leads to an devastating behaviour where people are judged and put in to certain positions due to their economic power.
        The price for a bullet is less than 1,50€. That’s how much a live is worth from an economic point of view. Devastating.
        Also and that’s where I start flirting with hizb etahrir: Women in a man ruled society become objects. In prostitution we see a clear proof. It starts at 20 € sometimes less. That’s plain and needs no further explication.
        Yet I see women choosing the man due to his financial potence. A millionar can choose his future wife (there are exaptions, but a woman is an object. If one woman refuses to buy in, he will find a second object that fits his premises). Many men are willing to enslave,exploit and even kill other men to get into an economic position where he can choose his wife.
        Where money is the sole and utmost mean and end -devastating things are done. This is my critique to liberalism (the reign of money). Not only women but also men suffer from it in unconceivable proportion.
        Islam in theory puts women into a better position. That’S true.
        Wasn’t it the Tunisians that held up high a piece a bread (Baguette) during their upraisals?
        Wasn’t this a scream to be provided with the basic needs in life with fair means and ends?
        Or was it hunger and greed that drove them to a point where they are willing to cross any moral boundary to not only feed their hunger but to enrich themselves?
        Wasn’t Ben ‘Ali an example how a people can suffer if some enrich themselves on costs of others?
        I feel like many Tunisians just want economic growth without questioning moral boundaries. More, more, more is all they want. I’m disappointed. That’s why I like the voice hizb ettahrir is adding to the chorus.
        No need to repeat that a sharia is not ready to be put in practice.

    6. Harris /

      Difference of opinion is the beauty of Islam, allowance of difference of opinion is the very reason Khilafah created a diverse and progressive society.
      Hazrat Omar Ra and Hazrat Abu Bakar Ra differed in their opinion on divorce, but when Hazrat Abu Bakar Ra was Kaaleefa whole ummah including Hazrat Omar had to follow it, and then Hazrat Omar Ra was followed.

      Secondly. Every Madhab is based on Sunnah and Ijtihad where needed.
      Based on following Hadith:
      Prophet PHUB Said (Transliteration): A mujtahid who does ijtihad and gets if correct get double the reward, the mujhtahid who does ijtihad and gets it wrong, the reward for him is single”

      Islamic Khilafah State can’t adopt a specific opinion when it comes to individual rituals (Ibadaat), People are free to practice Ibadat based on any Ijtihad, as far as that Ijtihad is based on Islam. So it makes no difference what Madhab people follow, because Khilafah State is not allowed to implement a certain adoption in Ibadaat.

      When is comes to Politics, Economics, Laws, Penal code etc (i.e Muamlaat) – if more than one opinion is available, and they are all based on Islam. Then it is for the Khaleefah to decide which opinion to adopt. Muamlaat can’t be dealt with in two different ways within the same state – because constitution and cannons are based on Muamlaat, and it can’t be different for different people.

      Prophet PHUB Said (Transliteration): Imam’s decision resolves the disputes.

      As for how can Khilafah be establish while their are too many Maslak’s and differences.

      For this we need to study the sunnah method to Establish Khilafah, to understand whether or not difference in Maslak and difference of opinion really a barrier in the way of establishing Khilafah.

      Khilafah is the very tool that resolves differences. Khilafah abolished all so called Ijtihads that are not based on Islam. ONLY the opinions that are based on Islamic evidences are accepted and are allowed to be propagated in Khilafah.
      Absence of Khilafah is the very reason that today any X Y Z can come up with an idea of his own, without any Islamic evidence and is allowed to propagate it in the name of Islam and deviating Ummah from the truth.

      • Skander /

        I have some bad news for you. The difference of opinions are due to contradictions and weak verses that are not clear. For example Quran 4.15 say cheating woman should be put in house arrest for life and no where in Quran say they need to be stoned. In hadiths they say they need to be stoned, but because the stoning hadith is believed newer than Quran verse, most Imams believe stoning is the correct punishment. That contradiction is not beauty, but stupidity.

        Only idiots would want hadiths law. http://sunnah.com/bukhari/59

        In these hadiths you read things like (The Prophet said “If a house fly falls in the drink of anyone of you, he should dip it (in the drink), for one of its wings has a disease and the other has the cure for the disease.”) Do I need to say any more? There are other medical absurdities like saying there are no contagious diseases found inhttp://sunnah.com/urn/255140 plus many other hadiths or that a cure is available for every disease in which now is not the case never mind 7th century Arabia http://sunnah.com/abudawud/29#20.
        According to Mohamed God sent diseases and each of them have a cure.
        When Muslims get sick, they go to a Doctor who learned Western Medicine, then why do they want Islam for law?

        • Harris /

          The issue you mentioned, and there is no different of opinion on that. However there are many other issues that has different of opinion within the framework lay down by the aayah or hadith that addresses the issue.

          As for Quran An-Nisa 15, that is the aayah you pointed at, so if you read the aayah, it end with… Ø£ÙŽÙˆÛ¡ يَجۡعَلَ ٱللَّهُ لَهُنَّ سَبِيلاً۬ (١٥)
          that is… “or Allah appoint for them a way”.
          The aayah itself strongly suggests that there will be new way prescribed for this issue in the future by Allah swt & that is exactly what happened, as the rule was later changed.

          The hadith about housefly and one can find 100s of other aayah and hadith that will make no sense to you or to me or to any other people or scientist e.t.c, and that is exactly where problem comes, problem is the way you approach the religion.
          Science is an ever exploring subject, every civilization thought that they are the most advanced in science and technology, but the nation that comes after them brings new glory and advancement, so its incorrect to say that science has made all the progress it could, and that is it. It has and will never be the case with science – since its beginning its been explored, theories was adopted and later proven to be wrong, or things proven wrong later become the norm. So science is not the correct scale, because its not Fixed, its ever exploring and ever changing.

          Then how to approach religion, i.e what the Way to Believe?
          There are some things that need to be answered, based on rationality, not based on any religious scripture or science e.t.c. Way to Believe must be purely Rational.
          So the question like,
          Is there a Creator or Not? What can’t be a Creator, & Why? Why do we need Massager’s? Proof that the Book/Message of that Massager the word of God?
          All these things must be proved without using Scripture or Science or Theories, answered to these questions must be based on pure rational thought, because using Scripture Science or any other Theory means pre-defining the premisses of conclusion, that will restrict the ability of thinking within the framework.

          After all these question are answered based on rationality, and a conclusion is reached, then everything that comes from that Creator MUST be following, whether it agrees with science or not, whether it fits the reality or not. Because science and reality is bound to change, they change with the changing time, so they can be wrong or right.
          But Way to Believe in a Creator (if one exists), is based on rationality, irrespective science, techno advancement, environment e.t.c. This rational believe is FIX, its permanent, because the changing science and reality do not effect the rational process, so this believe in the Creator is FIX, and the reality is bound to change with time, not the Message of the right Creator.

          As for the argument that times has changed. Technological advancements had happened at every stage in history, the Year of Elephant was less technologically advanced than the time of Prophet-hood of Mohammed PBUH which was different to the time of Establishment of the state of Madina, different at the Death of Prophet, more advanced at time of Sahaba, further advanced at the time of Tabayeen, and further advancements came as time passed, there were times when Greeks were leading it, then Persians, then Romans, then Islam, communism, and Capitalism..
          Technological advancements are integral part of time, and all over history it was lead by the super powers of that time, it is a natural process that has nothing to do with Concepts of Way of Life.
          Every civilisation will use science according to their viewpoint of life, but science itself is not restricted to any civilization.

          Islam has always encouraged education, technological advancement, medicine, military might and scientific innovation, and that is the very reason why today’s scientific progress and maths is based on basic principles founded by Muslim scientists and scholars, including the first ever hospital (Aspataal) was also built in Islamic state.

          As for non-technological advancement, this is a myth that don’t exist, the only advancement possible is technological, and that is it.
          Humans are same since the first man created, their is no difference between todays man and Adam when it comes to human inclinations.
          The basic principle were are and will remain the same, Humans need food to survive, they have procreation instincts and humans tend to strive to avail sustenance, and the instinct of worship, instinct of securing oneself. These are basic things present in human nature, that will never change.
          What changes is that fact that different Ideologies address these needs/instincts in different ways in reflection to ideology’s founding principles (Aqeeda) & viewpoint of life.

    7. Bekay /

      I really don’t think you speak for the vast majority of Tunisians at all. In fact the vast majority of Tunisians take time to think and research so they can form an educated and informed opinion – as we witnessed in the recent elections where opinions (religious, political, social, economic etc etc) where debated, discussed and contested across the country. A basic amount of research on Ettahrir (by which i mean visiting their website) would tell you that they have written books, pamphlets, articles etc on all the “normal” things you rightly mentioned, including topics such as wealth distribution, taxation, industrialising a society, the education system, organ donation, embryology…

      The point is that the 2012 vs 1924 argument poses a false dichotomy. Who says an Islamic state can’t be a modern, functioning, world-leading state? Who says that a society run according to Islam has to be like Afghanistan, Somalia or Saudi Arabia? I don’t want Tunisia to look like any of those countries – precisely because they’re not a true representation of what an Islamic state should look like.

      The Islamic caliphate was the most advanced state of its time throughout virtually every era, i.e. for over 1,000 years – declining only in its last 200 years or so, as the Muslims started to adopt more and more aspects of their civilisation from Europe and diluted their adherence to Islam at a governmental level.

      So please research the subject matter. You may still disagree, but at least your disagreement will be based on facts.

      • Al /

        You cant be a world leading Economic state when everything is HARAM. Great idea also to take women out of the workforce as well so they can tend to the home, and cut GDP by half.

        Do you think Rich Khaleeji people will replace the lost tourism from Europe? It wont happen, if I live in Saudia and I cant see a woman or drink alcohol, why would i go to a place to vacation if all women were wearing a Nikab and I couldnt have a drink, I would go to Paris. You should see what they do in Lebanon.

        When you look at the faces and actions of these Salafi – what is soo attractive about them, compared to a peaceful man that goes to work everyday, doesnt interfere in others lives and institutions.

        The Muslim world is not a place in which to get your inspiration, show me some groundbreaking inventions from the Muslim world, Asia, Europe, and the USA invent everything.

        In Tunis now they cant even open a Orange telephone store without Salafis marching in angry how the women are dressed. They seriously need to get a life.

        See the reason i dont like Salafi is they wont allow people that dont agree with them to live the way they want. If i want to take my wife to the beach and she is wearing a bikini, this is no business of the bearded man swimming with his wife wearing a full niqab which i will not interfere with.

        Persopolis, magazines with semi nude woman- so what, this stuff is everyday stuff.

        Muslims are sooo sentimental about their so called Golden age of Saladin, but the progress stopped.

        True beleif in religion is voluntary and the best thing the country can do is to have freedom of religion but not in the constitution. You have minorities like Jews in Tunisia, you have people that are not religious. The job of the state is not to be GOd on Earth.

        If Tunisia was smart they would copy a country that is currently successful, say Germany. Start creating things people want. Start dreaming , build cars, airplanes, trains, electronics, This is my two cents, This religion is honeslty becoming an obsession. Europe went through this too, but they got over it.

    8. Greta /

      Peter, really take Cap Locks off – it is giving me a headache.

      I think the people doing this conference have been silenced for many many years under Ben Ali and now want to explore their religion and what they think about it. We should not give them the attention that they crave since they are such a tiny minority here, however motivated and loud.

      Religion aside, what I do not like is that Tunisians are letting foreign born Tunisians from Europe decide what will happen on Tunisian soil. Many of these people have a completely different view of their religion. Someone born in Bradford living with the paradox of groups of agressive drunken fourteen year old English girls and illiterate Pakistani imams should not be given more respect than someone born and bred in Tunisia. Their problem is the west, but they are powerless there so are coming here to feel strong. Tunisians should try and preserve this beautiful country and put a higher value on it and not be in such a hurry to change everything. There are many people in the world who would control this pearl of the Mediterranean and it’s not because they claim to follow the tenets of Islam that you should trust them. History has proved that theocracies only ever get more extreme.

    9. Tunisian Bella /

      how come when i posted a reply to Skander with versus from the Qur’an to counter his false claim, you never published it? Yet you allow him to post nonsense about the Qur’an. I challenged him back with FULL information not just the one verse as he did to prove his “findings”. You published his quote from the Qur’an, yet not mine??

      • Adam Le Nevez /

        Hello,
        your comment was marked as spam by our automatic spam-detection software, probably because of its length. It is not our policy to censor comment except for when it is defamatory or incites hatred or violence. The comment should now appear.

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