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    Draft Constitution Completed, but Still No Consensus

    By Farah Samti | Apr 24 2013 Share on Linkedin Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Google Share on pinterest Print

    Tags: Constitution , Fadhel Moussa , final draft , Kais Saied , main-featured ,

    The National Constituent Assembly

    The National Constituent Assembly (NCA) committee tasked with writing Tunisia’s new constitution produced a final draft on Tuesday, but members of a commission of experts chosen to review it are refusing to do so.

    The Joint Committee for Coordination and Drafting had a deadline of April 27 to complete its work. A commission of constitutional and linguistic experts was chosen to undertake a final reading of the draft before submitting it to the Speaker of the NCA, the Prime Minister, and the President.

    However, most of the experts selected for the commission have refused to participate in its work. Acceptance by the commission is not legally required, but it was created as final stamp of approval for the draft constitution.

    In an interview with Tunisia Live, constitutional expert Kais Saied explained the reasons behind his refusal to be a part of commission.

    “As choices were already made, experts have nothing to add at this point,” said Saied. “It is now a political matter, not a legal one.”

    Saied, along with other experts, attended sessions of the different subcommittees that assisted in drafting the constitution and shared his views and suggestions with members of the NCA, he said. This included perspectives from similar constitutional experiences in other countries.

    “The final agreement has to take place among political parties,” he said. “Politicians should have the final say and be held responsible for it.”

    Fadhel Moussa, a member of the NCA representing the opposition Al Massar party, told Tunisian radio station Mosaique FM that the experts panel was not well-chosen, as some of its members did not have a clear understanding of the constitution. He also expressed doubts about reaching a political consensus on the final draft.

    A national dialogue has been taking place during the past week among parties of the ruling Troika coalition, opposition parties, and Tunisia’s largest union, the UGTT. According to Mosaique FM, a consensus was not reached among political leaders on the structure of Tunisia’s next political system – whether it will be presidential, parliamentary, or mixed. 

    The same source also reported that Nidaa Tounes, a large opposition party, is no longer participating in the dialogue as an act of protest.

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      proud primtive bedouin /

      the biggest threat for the arabs now are women who want to destroy islam und turn islam into a leftist, feminist religion through theology and social sciences.

      arab governments and also the tunisian government must introduce sharia law in order to have a patriarchal society where women know there place.

      and they must outlaw education for women, at least garbage like gender “sciences” or sociology, which turns women into man haircut and trousers wearing creatures who abort, hate men and children and love lesbianism

        • proud primtive bedouin /

          i have seen it to, but can´t change it afterwards and i´m not trolling!

          i´m serious, but i can unterstand that for modernists like you, that what i say sounds ridiciolous.

          nationalism is too from satan, we are muslims.

          what makes a tunisian better or more important than a starving child in somalia? we are all first of all muslims!

          nationalism=evil racism

            • proud primtive bedouin /

              what cosmopolitan degenerates think is not a standard for morally righteous people or with another word:muslims

              there is no such thing as an internatioal solidarity or community

              how dumb has one to be to believe in such an utopian garbage?

              grow!

            • proud primtive bedouin /

              to “hichem”, i don´t care and its not of relevance

              to point to such mistakes is a tool for people who have no arguments

          • nationalist /

            So to say that we need to create a society where a woman need to know her place is not ridiculous?

            Or to say that education turns woman into lesbian is not ridiculous?

            First of all, i understand and respect your opinion. Everybody has his or her own views towards certain matters and it is good to create a dialog between us and to learn about what others find important.

            I for example find equality important, i find nationalism important and i find a strong limitation on the power of the government important.

            So even though i am also against leftist political parties i find people that want to enforce their way a bigger threat. A government needs to represent the people, whether they are male or female, Muslim or Jewish, white or black. People with your views tend to not believe in actual representation of society and that is what is scary. But luckily the majority of Tunisia are not like you.

            So thank you for your reply and i hope you find true peace from within because your words are filled with anger. I also hope you will find reasoning fairly soon.

            • proud primitive bedouin /

              okay, my statement of course was stated in a very polemic way.

              now, i will explain my points of view:

              i personally see the biggest threat for muslims and arabs in western liberalism and here especially in feminism, because liberalism and feminism are a deadly threat to the institution of the family, which is the backbone of every strong society.
              and this main threat comes from feminists who have been brainwashed an universities with western feminist ideology. feminists – by the way feminism is a communist ideology(one of the main aims of communism is to destroy the family) – are against the family, of course most of them don´t say that openly.

              as i said, the material of which strong societies are made of are intact families and intact families are ALWAYS patriarchal. people have been so brainwashed to believe that all forms of patriarchy are bad. patriarchy essentially means nothing alese than basically “the rule of men in the public sphere and in the family”. an intact familiy is always patriarchal and has the man as the leader, the patriarch. the natural role of a women in life should be that of the mother and housewife.

              women should not be in the public, because this weakens our societies and destroys families.

              women are too emotional and irrational. all female heads of states have destroyed their nations(margret thatcher has deindustrialized her nation, angela merkel is leading her nation into destruction, and that fernandez has introduced gay marriage, adoptions rights for sodomites and has allowed people regardless of their gender to write whatever gender want into ther ID-cards and argintina is the only country in the world that allows this!)

              feminism is no doubt the nazism and communism of our days.

              you said that saying education makes women into lesbians is ridiculous.

              in gender “sciences” they teach young women that genders don´t exist and that genders are constructed by an oppressive society!!! if you don´t know that! and i´´m not kidding you! and of course that homosexuality is perfectly “natural” and bla bla bla

              now to nationalism:

              i can unterstand nationalism, if you talk about nationalism in the sense that someone who lives in a certain nation should wish and work for the best of this nation.

              but as muslims we must understand that we too have a religion bonding to our brothers and sisters in believe too. nationalism in the sense that someonly cares only for his own nation is false and narrow minded.

              we are part of a world-spanning civilization, nation, spiritual, ethical, cultural community and especially community of values – whose values are threatened by liberalism.

              and i do not want to force anything to anybody, i as a muslim of course wish scharia law for the arab world in the long term, but i understand that it can´t be done with force, but this decadence, allowing homosexuality, feminism, abortion, gay bars, strip clubs, etc. has no place in the arab world.

              and arabic women should not become boy haircut and business suit wearing quasi-lesbians(i didn´t literally mean lesbians when is said that about educated women)

              i too agree on the limitation of the power of the government. the best form of government is the one in which it is small but efficient and it should allow free capitalism(and muslims really need to stop to think that capitalism is the absolute evil, it is the same problem a lot of people have with the word patriarchy)

              but the government should have a saying in public morals to protect the family, they should outlaw adultery, sex before marriage, homosexuality etc.

              and indeed my words are filled with anger and i will never find peace as long leftists, liberals and feminists are trying to import liberalism to destroy our societies and i will confront them with my opinion and disagreement and i will try to expose them as what they: degenerates!

            • maria /

              so was ben ali a woman? was mubarak a woman? the saudi leaders are all men look what they have done to Mecca. you dont have any idea what your talking about. Islam is spit all over the world there are examples of muslims killing muslims what are you talking about one religion that brings all together if that is true why are there sunny and shai and wassabi for example and why are they constatnly killing each other.

              the present government cannot speak to any one about morals did you not read the latest human right report for example. They are currupt, they have mislead the people, they have left people to die…so who are you talking about…if these people are your role models then there is no saving you. you are very agressive and insulting which will only attract that back to you….you are frantic and thoughtless in your speech. Yes you are entitiled to your rants but dont be surprised when you are attacked back.

    1. Tunistrue /

      Wow proud primtive bedouin – your mother must be so proud of you – no let me guess you don’t have one because women serve no purpose in your twisted little world – pathetic….

      • maria /

        @ tunistrue he does not have a mother she probably ran away when she saw her baby had no sense….this man is just trolling and ranting he is a degenerative personality…who needs to get over himself. Sadly he is a donkey that even a donkey would not claim. Let him be, leave him to his headaches…..imagine having him as a family memeber ….probably an orphan

      • proud primitive bedouin /

        to “ramzy”,

        it is always fascinating how smart, intellectual you sexual deviant liberals are and how convincing your arguments are.

        you really shook my primitive, reationary wolrd and convinced me of your opinion with that thoughtfull, well articulated post.

        and now go smoke soma hashish and get involved into sodomy you sexual deviant modernist

    2. Publicola /

      all female heads of states have destroyed their nations

      en passant a cursory glance at some male rulers:

      Attila was a man, Timur Tamerlane was a man, Vlad III. Drăculea was a man, Robespierre was a man, Leopold II of Belgium (Congo) was a man, Hitler was a man, Stalin was a man, Pol Pot was a man, Idi Amin was a man, Bokassa was a man, Ruhollah Khomeini was a man

    3. Publicola /

      where women know there place … the biggest threat … are women who want … a … feminist …

      “their” – genuinely female – “place”, i.e. a particular female talent for typically ‘male’ or ‘female’ jobs, is more or less (solely) dependent on the respective circumstances of everchanging time and everchanging society.

      Thus in both World Wars the overwhelming number of men were active as soldiers or as Home Guards on the self-defence paramilitary home front, the women had to do the jobs formerly done exclusively by men. In addition, lots of women were also active in military service.
      After the War(s) the men did everything to achieve a ‘roll-back’ of that revealing situation:

      During both World War I and World War II, women were called on, by necessity, to do work and take on roles that were outside their traditional gender expectations.
      In Great Britain this … and was strongly contested by the trade unions, particularly in the engineering and ship building industries.
      For the duration of both World Wars, women did take on jobs traditionally regarded as skilled “men’s work”.
      However, in accordance with the agreement negotiated with the trade unions,
      women undertaking jobs covered by the Dilution agreement lost their jobs at the end of the First World War.

      WWII: By 1945, more than 2.2 million women were working in the war industries, building ships, aircraft, vehicles, and weaponry. Women also worked in factories, munitions plants and farms, and also drove trucks, provided logistic support for soldiers and entered professional areas of work that were previously the preserve of men. … – … Though also lots of women were serving in the armed forces.

      The acquisition of the right to vote and equal rights for women in Europe and the Allied countries after the World Wars thus has much to do with this manifest ‘revelation’ of the evidenced real abilities and the proven intellectual and operative potential and prowess of women:

      In part because of female participation in the war effort Canada, the USA, Great Britain, and a number of European countries extended suffrage to women in the years after the First World War

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women%27s_roles_in_the_World_Wars

      • proud primitive bedouin /

        to that subhuman whore “Laura”,

        typical stupid women. you are never able to discuss anything rationally, antother proof for female stupidity.

      • proud primitive bedouin /

        women during second world war where in the military primarily in the totalitarian communisist sovjet union.

        and your example shows that the roots of feminism and womens emancipation are in a totally unntatural situation – war, where women had to fill the place of men, the breadwinners, in the industry, it is just ridiculous to say that women are as able as men to be mechanics or physical workers of anykind

        the right to vote brouth western societies gay marriage, abortion rights and leftist extremism – things, which im am sure about you support

        hey and when to partens work, who will care for the children? i bet you will say the government, huh?

        to put a child into a government instituion so a women could achieve a career and live for her own selfishness is a disgusting attack on humanity

        death to feminism and gender equality

        • Publicola /

          @ ppd

          God Almighty protect the world from Islam ! – that’s the only conclusion a reasonable human being can draw from your postings

          • proud primitive bedouin /

            “@ ppd

            God Almighty protect the world from Islam ! – that’s the only conclusion a reasonable human being can draw from your postings”

            so in other words you say: i don´t have any arguments, so i quit!

    4. Laura /

      proud primitive etc, how is your stupid mother? have you fed her yet? i believe she’s quite attractive for a donkey…..

      • maria /

        this person is not here to exchange views so there is nothing else to be said. Great example fro what a Muslim should not be…so way to go donkey…oooppps sorry proud whatever…whoever….you are a brilliant advert for your country.

        • proud primitive bedouin /

          “this person is not here to exchange views so there is nothing else to be said. Great example fro what a Muslim should not be…so way to go donkey…oooppps sorry proud whatever…whoever….you are a brilliant advert for your country”

          my job is not to advertise for my country and i said before that i don´t care what foreigners or westerners think.

          as is said before, typical dumb women, they are never able to discuss rationally, may tunisia introduce sharia law to oppress you.

    5. proud primitive bedouin /

      to “maria”:

      ben ali wife laila was a women. ben ali was a weakling who was controlled by his wife which plundered and raped tunisia – you know that.
      the same with mubarak – it was suzanne mubarak which did almonst the same..

      and lets not forget queen rania of jordan which is doing exactly the same

      it irrelevant if islam is spit over in the world.

      was is a wassabi? wassabi is a vegetable.

      if you are talking about the sunni-shiite violence in iraq, it just happened when iraq was invaded

      and any “human right report” is not relevant for muslims. the human rights charte of the UN is not of relevance for us muslims.

      we have our own human rights – the sharia.

      the UN human rights charter for example includes gay marriage and abortion as a human right, which im am sure, you support

      but muslims cannot

    6. Solomon /

      Hey proud primitive bedouin. You say ‘women should not be in the public, because this weakens our societies and destroys families.’

      What a hoot! No women in public? Now I know the reason for your twisted, misogynistic ranting! You’re just a pathetic closet Queen unable to understand his own feelings – why else do you only want to see men all the time? A woman hater and nothing less.

      • proud primitive bedouin /

        to “solomon”,

        typical garbage of secularists without any kind of sense.

        unlike you i don´t have the need to see women all the time to have them available to have sex with them – and that´s basically what you want. descent muslims have sex with their wife.

    7. Wissam /

      @proud primitive bedouin

      You really need to read about what your religion teaches you!

      Everyone has an opinion – everyone has the right to think.

      Please be respectful and listen to other opinions, if not, then don’t bother giving your opinion here.

      Wissam

      • proud primitive bedouin /

        to “Wissam”:

        i don´´t know why you are lecturing me.

        “You really need to read about what your religion teaches you!

        Everyone has an opinion – everyone has the right to think.

        Please be respectful and listen to other opinions, if not, then don’t bother giving your opinion here.

        Wissam”

        what do i have to learn about my religion?

        i didn´t dispute anybodys right to think or have an opinion.

        why don´t you whine about the disrespect of the other commentators on here?

    8. proud primitive bedouin /

      by the way i have a question to “maria”, “laura” and “Publicola”, are you even tunisian or arab?

        • proud primitive bedouin /

          to “publicola” i see, if you are european how dare you mind other peoples business?

          care for your own country

          • Publicola /

            care for your own country

            Oh yes, I really do: I don’t think I should leave things to people whose sole purpose in life seems to be – after migrating into Europe in countless numbers from islamic countries to benefit from a functioning democratic and social system there – to put their hateful ideology, their religiously motivated hateful views and their personally accumulated hatred into reality and massacre human beings there.
            In other words: I am quite simply opposed to hatred and destruction – in Europe, for example.

            • proud primitive bedouin /

              to “Publicola”:

              “Oh yes, I really do: I don’t think I should leave things to people whose sole purpose in life seems to be – after migrating into Europe in countless numbers from islamic countries to benefit from a functioning democratic and social system there – to put their hateful ideology, their religiously motivated hateful views and their personally accumulated hatred into reality and massacre human beings there.
              In other words: I am quite simply opposed to hatred and destruction – in Europe, for example.”

              great, congratiolations! if thats really true, i mean that you are opposed to hate and destruction than contribute to a more peacefull world and at least denounce the western bloodthirsty hatred for muslims which leads to bombings and drone attacks of muslim nations, which leads to unqualified support for the terrorist state of israel,

              which leads to the imposement of sanctions against iraq from 1990 to 2003 which killed 2.000.000 iraqis,
              which leads to the bombings of weddings or funerals in afghanistan,

              which leads to the torture of muslims in gulags ala guantanomo bay or abu ghraib, where muslim women and children habe beeen raped by the carries of “judeo-christian civilisation”

              which leads to the support of dictators,

              just to name the crimes of the west in the last 30 years.

              if you could denounce that, that would be a step foward!

          • Publicola /

            ppd

            1 – you absolutely don’t seem to be aware of the fact that France and Germany (and Russia) were opposed to Bush’s Iraq war, knowing and having the expertise
            a – of the ethnic, cultural, religious and demographic structure of Iraq that not much good could come out of that
            b – of the groundless assumption of the existence of weapons of mass-destruction, of a link between Al-Qaida-terrorism and the Iraqi-Baath-regime

            2 – you absolutely don’t seem to be aware of the fact that the war against the Iraqi-regime was rationalized, was justified by referring to the preceding 11 September 2001 terrorist attacks on the United States, carried out by 19 young men, 15 of the 19 were citizens of Saudi Arabia. Others were from Egypt, Lebanon, and the UAE. They usually came from rich families and stayed or studied for a longer time either mainly in Germany (Hamburg) or – some – in the USA …
            … resulting in unleashing the ‘War on Terror’ (with the concomitant Abu Ghraib-camp)
            a – against Taliban-Afghanistan (07.10.2001)
            b – against Hussein-Iraq (20.03.2003)

            3 – you absolutely don’t seem to be aware of the fact, that what you call the terrorist attitude of the state of israel is insolubly to be attributed and is insolubly connected to the 1967 Six-Day-War and to the 1973 Arab–Israeli War:
            a – between 1966 and 1967 Israel’s borders saw repeated Arab terrorist attacks and Syrian military activity
            b – Nasser received false intelligence reports that an Israeli attack on Syria was imminent; Egyptian intelligence later confirmed that the reports of Israeli force concentrations were in fact groundless, but Nasser had by then already started his buildup and he feared that a sudden callback of those forces would result in humiliation at a time when Nasser could ill afford being humiliated.
            c – On 1 September 1967, the eight members of the Arab League issued the Khartoum Resolution which included a pledge not to recognise Israel
            d – the 1973 Arab–Israeli War, a war of aggression, was fought by the coalition of Arab states led by Egypt and Syria against Israel from October 6 to 25, 1973

            In brief: I am sad to say that you unfortunately refuse to acknowledge, to notice and to admit the inevitable connection between cause and effect.

            • proud primitive bedouin /

              to that “Publicola”:

              “In brief: I am sad to say that you unfortunately refuse to acknowledge, to notice and to admit the inevitable connection between cause and effect.”

              I absoulutely do.

              Because there is no connection in the sense that those attacks where the reason for the iraq-war. everybody knows that the bush administration knew that they were lying. you even refute and contradict your self with that following statement with regard to that:”b – of the groundless assumption of the existence of weapons of mass-destruction, of a link between Al-Qaida-terrorism and the Iraqi-Baath-regime” the reason for the war in iraq was simply pathological, genozidial and bloodthirsty hatred for muslims which one can see in your post and your trivialisation or downplayhing of the the crimes of the west against muslims in iraq and afghanistan.(millions of death, abu ghraib)

              it doesn´t matter if those three nations were opposed. dozens of western, christian countries participated in that crusade and the mass killings of muslims.

              all those wars in against israel where started by israel and all this begann when terrorists mass slaughered and expelled palestinians(deir yassine massacre)

              and of course you didn´t go into the millions of dead iraqis from the sanctions

              i really have to thank you for finally showing your true colours

            • Publicola /

              ppd – you seem to expect that two wars started and defeated by the same party won’t have any consequences. You are utterly wrong there. I think there’s no reason to wail, whimper and whine about – for nobody at all and for no reason at all,
              unless you expect God/Allah to repeal the law, the iron chain, of cause and effect, of action and consequence.

              Just to quote a more or less recent example: Germany initiated WWI and in particular WWII and was defeated twise, i.e. in both wars. Of course and quite naturally that resulted in a considerable loss of territory, what else? – the chain of cause and effect was and is still valid, at least here on earth, whatever might be the case in the beyond.

              WWI - In the treaty of Versailles 1919 Germany was compelled
              a – to yield control of its colonies – German colonies were divided between Belgium, Great Britain, and certain British Dominions, France, and Japan with the determination not to see any of them returned to Germany – , and
              b – would also lose a number of European territories:

              b1-Most of the province of West Prussia would be ceded to the restored Poland.
              b2-Alsace and much of Lorraine—both originally German-speaking territories—were part of France.
              b3-Northern Schleswig was returned to Denmark.
              b4-Parts of of Upper Silesia was transferred to Czechoslovakia and Poland.
              b5-The area of Eupen-Malmedy was given to Belgium.
              b6-The northern part of East Prussia was annexed by Lithuania.

              Not to mention the titanic territorial changes that happened to Germany’s ‘comrades in arms’, i.e. the Austrian-Hungarian Empire and the Ottoman Empire: namely their complete dissolution.

              WWII - Again, Germany lost a quarter of its (already reduced: see above WWI) post-WWI, pre-WWII (1937) territory.

              So what – that’s the law of cause and effect: and who should why have the right and justification to wail, whimper and whine about what? – …
              … that’s what I think, anyway.

      • maria /

        You are not Tunisian although even if your were it would not make you an authority. I dont feel the need to qualify myself to you especially when Publicola spoke you found fault with that. I think you are seriously challenged and have been without medication for quite some time…I am qualified to say that.

        any one who cares about people has a right to comment and I respect yours but the abuse does nothing but show who you are…….. An angry person with a self inflated sense of self.

    9. proud primitive bedouin /

      to “publicola”:

      “ppd – you seem to expect that two wars started and defeated by the same party won’t have any consequences. You are utterly wrong there. I think there’s no reason to wail, whimper and whine about – for nobody at all and for no reason at all,
      unless you expect God/Allah to repeal the law, the iron chain, of cause and effect, of action and consequence.

      Just to quote a more or less recent example: Germany initiated WWI and in particular WWII and was defeated twise, i.e. in both wars. Of course and quite naturally that resulted in a considerable loss of territory, what else? – the chain of cause and effect was and is still valid, at least here on earth, whatever might be the case in the beyond.

      WWI – In the treaty of Versailles 1919 Germany was compelled
      a – to yield control of its colonies – German colonies were divided between Belgium, Great Britain, and certain British Dominions, France, and Japan with the determination not to see any of them returned to Germany – , and
      b – would also lose a number of European territories:

      b1-Most of the province of West Prussia would be ceded to the restored Poland.
      b2-Alsace and much of Lorraine—both originally German-speaking territories—were part of France.
      b3-Northern Schleswig was returned to Denmark.
      b4-Parts of of Upper Silesia was transferred to Czechoslovakia and Poland.
      b5-The area of Eupen-Malmedy was given to Belgium.
      b6-The northern part of East Prussia was annexed by Lithuania.

      Not to mention the titanic territorial changes that happened to Germany’s ‘comrades in arms’, i.e. the Austrian-Hungarian Empire and the Ottoman Empire: namely their complete dissolution.

      WWII – Again, Germany lost a quarter of its (already reduced: see above WWI) post-WWI, pre-WWII (1937) territory.

      So what – that’s the law of cause and effect: and who should why have the right and justification to wail, whimper and whine about what? – …
      … that’s what I think, anyway.”

      first of all its the west that is constantly wyning about muslims and islam, second, even if i don´t exactly now what you are referring to, the two wars in afghanistan and iraq or those with israel, as i said before and as you did before with down playing the millions of dead people in iraq and afghanistan and pakistan, now you are not even going into the deir yassin massacre with wich the near east conflict began.

      the example of germany is in no connection to any situation in the middle east.

      israel is the aggressor, has always been.

      its a typical method of patholoigal muslim haters like yourself to constantly whine about muslims, about islam and to whine about western victims and play victim but not to go into the uncountable crimes of westerners and christians against muslims for which those israeli aggressions and mass murder in iraq and afghanistan are just three examples and furthermore to say its “victim playhing” or “whining” when muslims mention these crimes. which is altogehter very revealing.

      here is your prevous pathethic whine about muslims:
      “Oh yes, I really do: I don’t think I should leave things to people whose sole purpose in life seems to be – after migrating into Europe in countless numbers from islamic countries to benefit from a functioning democratic and social system there – to put their hateful ideology, their religiously motivated hateful views and their personally accumulated hatred into reality and massacre human beings there.
      In other words: I am quite simply opposed to hatred and destruction – in Europe, for example.”

      the only thing that i can is that westerners should not expect to much appreciation for westerners which their disease to massmurder muslims but whine about how bad muslims are and who projecting their own pathological bloodthirst into other people.

      • Publicola /

        ppd – The abyssal difference between wishful, make-believe faith or belief on the one hand, and verifiable, documented evidence on the other hand is not to be underestimated,
        as far as I know

        • proud primitive bedouin /

          to “Publicola”:

          that is a statement that i can´t agree more on.

          i bring it up for the third time: are you trying to deny the deir yassine massacre and the expulsion of the palestians that came along or will you dodge it for the third time?

    10. Acne /

      I just couldn’t leave your website prior to suggesting that I really
      loved the standard info a person supply on your visitors?
      Is going to be back incessantly to check out
      new posts

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